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Author Topic: The ULTIMATE New Player Guide to LaLa Land!!!!  (Read 25368 times)
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La-La Nutcase
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« Reply #15 on: November 17, 2014, 02:01:32 PM »

I think this misses out several key pieces of information on How to build and so I will add:
How to Build
BAB (Base Attack Base)
This is essentially the number you need to be the highest for most cases, for attack base.
The higher the attack base before 20, the greater the amount of overall attack base and also attacks per round.
Highest attack base per level characters are:
Fighter, Paladin, Barbarian, Ranger, Purple Dragon Knight,
And for prestige, Arcane Archer, Blackguard, Champion of Torm, Dwarven Defender
Bard, Rogue, assassin, Harper Scout (think I have that right) gets 3 BAB for every 4.
Wizard, Sorcerer, Pale Master all have the lowest BAB available. As in, 2 levels of wizard will get you 1 BAB.
I wont go through all the others, but 20 levels of paladin before level 21, is 20 BAB
If you happen to want all the attacks you can get on your character you need 16 BAB.
Lets go through a scenario, I want to make, for example, a fighter wizard. Most would think the attack base sucks.
However, if you level first 20 fighter, then 20 wizard, you will have the same attack base as a level 40 fighter.
This is because after level 20 it does not matter what class you are, BAB increases exactly the same to 30

Attacks per round

So how about the 16 BAB thing Rand? Well, this ensures you have the most amount of attacks per round
You will see this on the character sheet in spaces of 5. (20/15/10/5 with the second hand underneath 18/13) That is six attacks per round.
For this you need 16 BAB, so, it is acceptable to do 16 levels of paladin, and 4 levels of rogue pre 20.
This gives you the full amount of attacks, and using a mid BAB class, you only miss out on 1 ab. Neet huh?

The other things that increase attacks per round are as follows:
Flurry of blows
Divine Power Spell
Improved two weapon fighting Feat
Kama and unarmed in use by a monk
10 is the highest amount of attacks per round that can be reached by the player calculated like this:
BAB +5 attacks
Second weapon//Improved two weapon fighting +2 attacks
Haste +1
Flurry of blows +1 (Flurry of blows gives -2 ab on the last two attacks)
Monk ability for unarmed and Kama weapon +1

1.69 update revised monks, they can use non-monk weapon in offhand and still get main hand monk progression

Overall Attack Base

So now you know about base attack base, how does the rest work?
Well the only things that effect attack base after this are as follows:
Ability score bonus
Spells (Aid, Prayer, Bless, divine favour, battletide)
Divine Power (This gives full BAB for it's duration, hence the huge influx of clerics everywhere)
Bard Song
Weapon Enchancement/Attack bonus
Weapon Master Feats
Arcane Archer Feats
Weapon Focus/Epic weapon focus
Epic Prowess

So for example, we have a level 40 fighter:
We already know he has full BAB, which at level 40 is the value 30.
We will assume the fighter is one handed, so that is 4 attacks.
Then we factor in the strength (Or dex, or wisdom for Zen archers).
We shall say... 28 strength, which gives 9 modifier.
Then he has managed to grab a sweet desert wind scimitar +8
He has the three feats needed Both focuses giving a total of 3 and epic prowess, that gives an extra 1.
And he has no buffs, song, or haste.
Totaling this up we can determine the ab to be, 30 (base) + 9 (strength mod) + 8 (scimitar bonus) + 4 (feats) = 51 Attack Base
With four attacks.

Attack Base cap

Now before you think, oh, this attack base stuff isn't so tough, 90 ab here we come. There is one final thing you need to know.
There is a hard cap on the AB.
This is a +20 cap on the magical increase of attack base.
This is includes, spells, song, weapon attack bonus and enhancement. The only thing exluded from this cap is the strength mod and feats.
For example, lets take the fighter from before. Let's assume he has the 51 attack base.
8 of that is scimitar bonus, part of the magical attack base cap.
So the highest ab he can hit is another 12 on top of that, reachable by spells and song. Thus the highest reachable attack base in the case is 63.
Scripted items can overcome this cap.

Armour class

So how am I hit? Armour class is the value that determines this, a monster or player most roll more or equal too this rating.
For example, If Jon has 40 ac, And I have 32 ab, I need 8 or more to hit him.

Armour class is worked out as follows:

10 (base) + Armour bonus + shield bonus + Dodge bonus + Deflection bonus + Natural bonus + Other AC.
Armour bonus is provided by Armour (what really?! Sheeett) and also Bracers/Gloves
Shield bonus is provided by shields
Dodge bonus is provided by boots
Deflection bonus is provided by belts, cloaks, weapons, rings and one particular ioun stone.
Natural Armour bonus is provided by amulets.
The only AC that stacks is dodge AC up to a maximum of 20, in all other cases only the highest applies.

Other AC refer to feats that increase AC, like Bone Skin from palemasters and draconic Armour from RDD.
This also includes Monk AC (which adds wisdom bonus to AC provided you wear no Armour or shield) and the dexterity bonus (limited by an Armour's Maximum dexterity bonus)
Expertise/improved expertise and race bonus' are also included under other AC.
Every 5 ranks of base tumble adds +1 ac also.

Lets put this into a scenario, we'll add some spells to make this interesting and to drive home a few points.
We have an human, he is a strength based Paladin Bard Palemaster with the level spread 22-2-16. And has 13 dexterity
He is equipped with:
+5 full plate (base 8 ac, dex max 1)
+3 tower shield (base 3 ac)
+3 Boots, +5 Ring, +4 cloak, +2 Amulet
Dusty Rose is active, Along with Epic mage armour and Bone Skin from Palemaster.
He also has 40 base tumble and Armour skin

To calculate we can say his AC is 10 + 8 (base Armour ac) + 3 (Base shield ac) + 5 (FP bonus) + 3 (TS bonus) + 3 (boots)
+ 5 (Ring) + 2 (Amulet) + 5 (Epic mage Armour) + 10 (Bone Skin) + 8 (tumble)  +1 (dexterity) + 2 (Armour skin) = 65 AC in total

Why did we leave some things out you ask? Well, Dusty Rose ioun stone gives +1 deflection AC and the cloak gave +4 deflection ac, The ring already has +5 deflection AC so only this value was used. Remember we only said that dodge AC stacks? Consider that fact proven.
Doesn't Epic Mage Armour give +20 AC? Yeah it does, though it's not actually 20, it's +5 of each type of Armour bonus. Since none of the others stack, only the +5 we gain from the dodge bonus counts. Remember this value caps at +20 dodge ac, so if you are exceeding this (with bonus' from haste, bard song etc) you will see no change at all.


Here's how the Neverwinter works out a little thing called "surprise".
Flatfooted is a special state where your dodge, dexterity and tumble bonuses are negated in the final value for AC.
It's basically a state where your caught unawares.
Blindness, paralyzed, prone, petrified, standing still, being attacked by someone invisible or stealthed, sleeping, stunned, bigbied or entangled.
These are the factors that determine whether you are flatfooted or not. It allows for automatic sneak attack and death attack activation on your face. (bad news)
Blind fight can mitigate this a tad, by negating the bonus to be hit by invisible creatures.
Uncanny dodge or the dwarven defender feat uncanny awareness helps retain the dexterity when caught.

Again.. another scenario (YAYY)

Lets pick the above Paladin, his ac is 65. Lets say for the sake of argument his dodge has already been maxed.
He's been caught flat footed! (ahhhh sheet)
His AC has dropped by 29! What the duece?! Why 29?
Well he has no uncanny dodge, so he loses that 1 bonus from dexterity, his entire maxed dodge ac of 20 also undergoes dispersal as does the 8 bonus from Tumble. This leaves the paladin with 36 AC... you can see why flatfootedness is a bad thing. Furthermore, if that person had sneak attack, he's deeply hurt, or death attack, he's probably stunned and deeply hurt. He's one screwed panda.
Generally one with an empty action queue is considered to be flatfooted, so if your being shot by archers make sure your clicking around like crazy or fighting something to maximize your AC.

Steps to becoming a good player

Building correctly is a great help, think about your progression stage, how will I hit well? How can I damage? What if my AC is low should I run? Stand at range? Each character uses a different style for efficacy, find out how you like to play. Make sure you know the spawn points and be mindful of this when you are running from danger, otherwise... LET ZE AMBOOSH KOMENCE.
The best thing you can do is think before you panic, where to run, can you lure a pack away from a downed or stunned teammate while he gets healed or invisible is cast? If so, do so, they will thank you for it.

A few things you might not know..

Dem pro tips son.
It's not impossible nor overly difficult to solo as an archer or caster. Casters can stun/slow or create summons that can allow you the minutes or seconds you need to deal some damage. Not to mention damage shields. With archers it's easier, you don't need to slow anything, when you hit about 2 attacks per round, you can run and shoot at the same time in intervals of 4-6 seconds. Using this technique you can solo Leg tigers, Leg jaguarys and lions, ettercaps, at level 8. Assuming your damage is good enough and you have the placements of the spawns correct so you don't attract too much attention. Use corners of buildings or trees to block the path or slow the creature down and play smart. I've killed things 20 or so levels above me this way on my own with high reward. Careful though, the risk is high, get hit. Your dead.

Monk AC and Monk wisdom bonus is not negated when said monk is flatfooted.

You can corner sneak things that aren't immune to sneak attack by using corners. When the creature turns the corner, if you sneak before the NPC perceives and engages the perception event (Window of about 2-3 seconds) you will apply sneak damage to your attack as the NPC become flatfooted.

You can corner sneak players too! Even if you have low move silently, if the player loses sight of you, listen does not activate again for another 2 seconds. The advantage being that you can run around a corner, hide (even with full plate) and not be seen for 2 seconds, attack in that space, you have them flatfooted. Run away, repeat.

Easy builds for new people

Great surviveability, Immune to critical and sneak, AC around 80+
Take PM levels after level 20 for as much BAB as you can get, go for either 10 PM or 16 PM and 30 Spellcraft in order to grab epic mage armour feat for +5 AC. Take tumble on bard levels (You need 3 to take PM levels and one final one at 40)
Tradeoffs between 20/22 cleric, against 26 cleric is that your much much harder to dispell. Whereas the other version has more AC. Be mindful of Alignment.

Plenty of spells, high saves, AC isn't TOO low.
Take one level of rogue and paladin near 40 for Tumble/UMD and Discipline/AC.
Can open lock and disable some traps if need be. Max Charisma
Good all around.

Alright AB, good damage, immune to sneak, fire and critical, high AC, good song, curse and taunt.
Two versions: 20bard/10RDD/10PM and 21bard/9RDD/10PM
The first one has no lasting inspiration which is imperative for a good long lasting song and curse.
The second is immune to fire and has 4 additional strength and +2 charisma.
Maximize: Taunt, perform, tumble, discipline, Concentration.
Optional: Spellcraft (Increases saves versus spells), Lore (Identify items), heal (for kits)

There are a few more I will add when my brain is actually working.
Hope you enjoy the guide I will also add build recommendations and why they work. (though not in TOO MUCH detail if it isn't needed)

Added some useful tools below

Here is the link for the 1.71 patch, this patch does not interfere or block any connection to a server if the server does not have 1.71 implemented. The patch fixes thousands of issues, changes icons and visuals on placeables.

Also here is the download for nwncx, this allows you to load any haks before character creation for use on servers with the nwnx_connect plugin. This also allows you to use custom classes and races during the original campaigns. The most noted change for client only download is that the server list now works without the game client. So no more waiting to connect to game spy, and no more connecting to bioware to check if your password is correct. This also does not interfere with any servers. Includes an exe that patches the normal nwmain.exe so that you don't need to run nwncx executable for the above advantages.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2015, 08:55:17 PM by savagefool » Logged
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« Reply #16 on: November 18, 2014, 02:04:38 PM »

This is extremely helpful, wish I'd known earlier  lol
Thank you very much, I look forward to the rest of your advice

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« Reply #17 on: November 18, 2014, 11:31:01 PM »

Wizard/Sorc/PM levels give one BAB per every TWO levels pre-epic, not every four.
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« Reply #18 on: November 19, 2014, 07:27:56 AM »

Divine power only gives an extra attack if your are epic bab is under 16.  It raises it up to 20 so it is the same as a pure fighter.  So a pure paladin pre epic with post epic cleric for example would gain nothing from divine power if their strength is already over 18.

I guess comments like these are why I'm no longer in the Shield.
Original Nordock.  This map isn't too bad for people that like killing undead and dont like how ruined ToD gets.  In fact when I went to pvp someone they were soloing this area.  They seem to like it.
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« Reply #19 on: November 19, 2014, 02:21:23 PM »

Divine power only gives an extra attack if your are epic bab is under 16.  It raises it up to 20 so it is the same as a pure fighter.  So a pure paladin pre epic with post epic cleric for example would gain nothing from divine power if their strength is already over 18.
Not true! They gain temp hps! Smiley

I'm back for the moment! Cheesy
If you would like to reach me via Email/Skype/FB send me a tell.

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« Reply #20 on: November 20, 2014, 03:05:58 PM »

Edits complete. The divine power was my bad. I was referring to a bug around ten years ago I still thought was around where you switch kamas in-hand while you attack with divine power active. Divine power added +1 attack for each main hand when switched giving a maximum of 12 attacks per round. This was fixed a long time ago. I have also added additional information.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2014, 05:17:34 PM by savagefool » Logged
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« Reply #21 on: May 28, 2015, 08:56:33 PM »

Added some useful downloads, looking to complete and finish this guide once and for all so I never have to visit it again, until we get playability patches in for class and spell changes etc. I'll check back in within two weeks to complete.
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« Reply #22 on: June 25, 2016, 08:43:59 AM »

Okay looks like it's time for an update, this time we are gonna focus on unknown pieces of information and shifter mechanics.

Useful titbits you might not necessarily know:
Ranger gets +1 ab at level 25 that does not appear on the character sheet. (You can see it in the rolls)
Throwing weapons follow Dex when calculating attack base only.
Shurikens count as a monk weapon, in regards to monk attack base progression.
Ki Strike by Weapon Masters does not work as intended (the max damage applies mechanic is broken)
Dwarven Defenders' defence stance can become bugged, this forces the affected character to enter battle stance but never attack.
Parry only parries the first attack in any three flurries in a round "for example, parrying an opponent with 5 attacks per round will only attempt to block the first, third, and fifth attacks"
You don't need dodge for epic dodge (Despite what it says in the description)
For lasting Inspiration, you do not need 21 levels of bard, only 20, you just have to be over level 20.
Bonus Feat: Sneak attack (+5d6 etc) given by items does not stack with rogue sneak attack. Does with Assassin or blackguard sneak attack.
Blackguard sneak stacks with rogue sneak and assassin death attack
Ab on "knockdown"ed enemies for ranged weapons is actually decreased by two.

Shifter mechanics:
Okay so here we get a little bit more hairy with the messy mechanics that Bioware designed. There is a popular belief that all shifting shapes have their caps and character statistics do not change end state of shifted shape when shifted. This is untrue let me a give a few rules of thumb.

Non-shape specific rules/tips:

Bracer/glove stats will never carry over to a shape, no matter the shape. (Unless the changes have been made server-side)
When calculating what attributes will carry over to the next shape, only the highest value counts. Example: +4 on belt, +6 on helmet, only the +6 will carry through to the newly acquired shape.
Two stats are not capped on any shape, charisma, wisdom (They will appear to be less than normal shape but that's because each is calculated off the base state of the new shape and NOT your normal shape.)
Regen stacks (+2, +3 etc on each item will stack) all the way to the cap of 24

General rule of thumb to follow when merging items :
"Has a weapon?  Merges all.
Unarmed, stands on two legs?  Merges items & armor.  
Unarmed, four or more legs?  Merges armor only.
Exceptions to the rule are Death Slaad Lord, Stone Golem and Demonflesh Golem."

After level 17 shifter, you unlock the epic versions of the shapes (Kobold, Minotuar, drider etc)

There are shapes that cap certain abilities, ill try to list the ones I remember or have played:
Risen lord: Caps strength at 21 and 19 Constitution, everything else is uncapped
Vamp: Strength caps at 18, dex at 20, everything else is uncapped
Spectre: Strength caps at 16, dex at 22, everything else is uncapped
Epic Kobold: Dex caps at 25, everything else is uncapped (Strength is NOT capped on Kobold, your starting characters strength will be the kobolds strength)
Epic Drow: Strength caps qt 22, and Dex at 24, everything else is uncapped
Dragons have very specific caps at 48 str, 36 dex and 32 con. Also they are nerfed in lala somewhat by Lims many years ago.
Epic Lizardfold:, Strength caps at 21 and Dex at 20, everything else is uncapped
Epic Minotaur: Strength caps at 22, and Constitution at 20, everything else is uncapped
Refer to for the rest of the shapes I haven't utilised

This opens up charisma builds on every shape and wisdom monk ac shapes.
You can also get monk progression attack bonus and extra Attacks Per Round (Including Flurry of blows) on shapes that are considered "unarmed"
DD builds gain moderate BAB for melee type shapes and great DR.
Base attack base (BAB) and attacks per round available pre-epic of your base character shape (human or whatever you were born with) carries over to your shape of choice.

« Last Edit: June 25, 2016, 09:43:50 AM by savagefool » Logged
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